note:
my replies to ???'s post follow each one:
_____ _____
"Not everything seen on Kirk's site is exceptionally well done."
considering the market, the era, and kp's nascent site,
i think the gallery pages _are_ showing examples of
exceptional work; the average builder there probably
has 1 - 5 years of experience and perhaps a dozen frames
under his belt.
_____ _____
"Some profiles of the lugs on Kirks' site are masterful; but some
of them are not finished in such a way that the end result adds to
the artistry of the shoreline in terms of thinness and sculpturing
of the surface."
whose frames _are_ masterful after just a few, or a
few years of building?!!
_____ _____
"Some IC lugs are more difficult to do work on, the Medici IC
lugs come to mind..."
they were cast by hitchener (sp) over 25 years ago. metal-
lurgy has evolved.
_____ _____
"The original purpose of IC lugs was to eliminate the filing
after brazing to increase productivity."
agreed! but the process itself need not be limited. were
you to bankroll a BB lug in a shape that got you wet and
sticky, i think you'd find that your frames might improve in
quality, (... you may have less interest in them. that is
separate issue though.). the inconsistencies inherent
pressed steel lugs can be dealt with on a per lug basis,
but once dealt with all you're left with is a block of time
that you'll never see again. if nothing else, ascetics aside,
the IC method makes a better lug and a better joint, pilot
error notwithstanding.
_____ _____
"So far I haven't seen many finished IC lugs that look like a
finished pressed lug."
if that is the stated goal, all it takes is money.
at this point we're mixing aesthetics and economy with
an "experience factor". i'm not sure what a finished pressed
steel lug looks like. but you can either create the look by
hand or you can cast it if that's the objective.
_____ _____
"I do have to admit, I am warming up a bit to IC lugs after working
with the Pacenti parts..."
kirk's are the best of all worlds: ornate enough to use "as-is" if
that's your bag. large enough to be used as a canvass. "soft"
enough owing to long shen's superb metallurgy. and precise
beyond words for that same reason.
_____ _____
"But the buying public does not look at frames the same way I do; not
any more than D'Angelico looks at guitars the same way the guitar
buying public looks at instruments."
D'Angelico no longer looks*, but we do! i think it's safe to say that
all (most!) on this list share your p.o.v. here: we do this work and
make these frames to please ourselves first. if the clientele had
ANY idea re what it takes to construct a frame superbly well,
we could be writing our own tickets.
this list is a great forum in which to state the differences; no
one else is going to do it for us - except maybe Asphalt - and
i know many consumers lurk here for info as to why frames
from list builders ought to reside in a higher place in the industry
food chain.

e-RICHIE
*note - he's dead.