mined from this thread -

>>> On the 25Seven blog Rob Vandermark, founder and President of Seven Cycles, claims that,
>>> "a big number of US “frame builders” source their bikes from China." Does this claim have
>>> validity? If so, to which "framebuilders" is he referring?

define framebuilder atmo.

>>> I guess that's my question: is he talking about brands like Salsa or Felt that everyone
>>> knows are outsourced, or is he talking about actual builders, the sort who put their name
>>> on the downtube?

how would i know? i never even knew he had a blog. and why does it
matter? folks should be able to make money. subcontracting in my
industry is and has always been commonplace - the norm. whether
it's 2 regions over the appenines or in asia, it's still how business gets

done. otherwise no one would ever have bicycles to sell at the LBS atmo.

>>> In the big scheme, it doesn't matter. I'm sure outsourced bikes ride fine. Yet, honesty
>>> and transparency are at stake. If someone deliberately represents their frames as being
>>> built in-house when in fact they're made in China, that's a lie. I don't like being lied to.
>>> Paying extra for a lie adds injury to insult.

do you feel this way about everything or just frames? for instance, my
american brand jeans were not made in san francisco. etcetera. how much
emotion really needs to be attached? it's all just stuff. unless a company has
a sign or a tag line that says everything it sells that has its name is made in
the next room, what kind of information would be enough atmo?